Hi there,
I have recently left the Pembina Valley Baptist Church. A number of things resulted in my finally deciding to leave. Firstly I have a desire to find a mate someday. At PVBC if I want to go out with someone I have to ask Pastor Sullivant first for permission to ask someone. They usually point to the Abraham story in the old testament where he sends his servant to find a wife for his son Jacob. Then they tell me that we have to go through the proper channels like them (Church Leader) and then the parents of the other party. Abraham's servant was not a priest or pastor so this reasoning is ridiculous. At PVBC only the Pastor gets to decide who goes out with who. People that he favors get the people that they would like to pursue. Others who don't fit the preacher boy image because of race or some other reason get shafted and in my case I was told by my friends that I would never be able to find a wife there. Some of my older friends did not believe that I should even attempt it.
Secondly my contact with other leaving members to find out why they were leaving led me to these other blogs of people who have escaped the crushing legalism in the IFB fold. There are many stories of heartache caused by the leaders in the PVBC. I myself have gone through spiritual abuse which I will not document here to protect the identities of people Pastor Sullivant has used to perpetrate it. My mother was also spiritually abused at the Hands of this Preacher. She was good friends with Mrs. Doris Kelly but according to the cult edicts no one is allowed to have close friends and sometimes people need to be separated.
I have very few friends in the PVBC. Four couples sometimes would spend time with me.
Most of my time was spent in crushing loneliness at home or even in church. They say to have friends you must show yourself friendly. Then why don't they?
I found that if I would ask the pastor questions about topics he did not approve of me studying he would criticize me and tell me to study in another way. Information is strictly controlled in the upper echelon of the cult. Any information sharing is denounced as gossip and people who are bubbly and like to talk a lot are sharply criticized either in person or generally from the pulpit. If you asked the wrong questions at a business meeting you would get church disciplined and some other lame excuse would be given for it.
The only place you are allowed to ask unedited questions are at business meetings. All other public questions are scrutinized before being asked at other types of meetings. People that left the church were targeted with false reasons for leaving such as handing out pamphlets for seventh day adventist church and why it was wrong to show that it had some thing to do with 7th Day Adventism. Then rumors spread about the possible reason. The rumor was that some of my mothers long time friends at church left and became 7th Day Adventists. Of course this is baloney. They just attended a prophecy meeting at one of those churches. It may not even have been affiliated with Adventism. The reason they left was they asked one of the pastors about the number of Apostles in the New Testament. When what they said conflicted with what the pastor believed he became enraged. The leadership At PVBC shows no real desire to learn or seek truth just pass on baptist doctrine which may not always even be right.
Information control is a big reason that someone should leave this cult....don't wait to find out the hard way after being spiritually abused...get out now... Read a lot and learn the reasons that others have left....
The sooner you leave the better off you will be...
101 comments:
Irvin it sounds like your pastor was trying to help you in your study.
Didn't this pastor take your sister in as their own after your mom passed?
Good for you Irving, leaving is the hardest thing but the wounds will heal. There is a one letter difference from heal to hell. God alone is your master not the taskmasters from Pembina and their cult satellites. Psalm 59:16 But I will sing of they power; yea I will sing aloud of thy mercy in the morning: for thou hast been my defence and refuge in the day of my trouble. Those men have cast trouble on your soul and God will be your refuge. Take heart brother God alone will help you find a mate not Matchmaker Sullivant.
I somewhat doubt taking his sister in was done out of the "goodness" of their hearts.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the gov't pay people to house and care for intellectually challenged individuals?
12:05,
do you think that the government pays the people that care for these most special people enough?
I doubt it.
I hope they do get some pay.... I've worked with special needs/challenged individuals and know first hand that it is no easy task. Let alone taking someone into your home and having them 24/7. I wonder how many of us would be willing to do that...pay or no pay.
12:05 pm. I am sorry for you. That you cannot see anything good. Can anyone live up to your expectations, since you have the ability to judge people's hearts?
I am sure that the government does pays for people to house and care for people. But what about all the little things that go beyond housing and caring? Ever think of that?
That's one of My favorite questions.Why do you Believe what you believe?Because you have been taught it all your life?because it's right? because my parents said it was the right way?" what if they are wrong then what?" Like I have said before what if there were no Bibles? Would you now be lost? How would you get to know God or is there even a God?Just because the Bible says so is not good enough!The Bible is not your salvation now is it? God and God's word is "alive and real" and cannot be limited to a book.To many people are like, Me and my Bible and now i am safe.Thank God for Our GREAT Teacher the Holy SPIRIT.many people may know the scriptures backward or forwards but know little or nothing about God. "Know as in experienced him and his attributes"they only know as in being "taught about God" and that's it
to the first commenter anonymous...my study was about the Isaiah 14:12 and 2nd Peter 1:19 verses and their Hebrew, Greek and Latin translations. The original tongues will obviously shed more light on the truth of God's word than the English bibles will.
Pastor Sullivant and all the preachers in the church will always say that the King James Bible is the perfect Bible and that there are no errors in it. It is obvious to me that this is not the truth due to my research. When confronted with this truth he told me that my source was a heretic. I then studied it for myself and found it to be the truth. Why will he not accept the truth...because he is the heretic...
I have known both Irv and his sister Meranda for many years . I think Irv made a wise choice to leave pvbc. Their mother was very devoted to the church a gave all that she could in any way possible. This family has been through many a rough time . I went to school with Irv and got to know him pretty good. I also know Meranda well. Its sad to see that the sullivants are now in possesion of her. Im sure the extra cash comes in handy because she sure doesnt look very well taken care of. Irv dont let this situation get you down God said that He is a father to the fatherless. And he will be there for you in your time of need. Keep trusting and have faiththat God will see you through this.
For knowing Miranda so well it's kind of humorous that you can't even spell her name correctly. I've also seen Miranda many times after her staying with the Sullivants...and I have to say I've never seen her look better. But I guess if you are looking through eyes of negativity you will see what you want to see.
So what I get out of this spiel is that Irvin's main reasons for leaving are as follows
1. No one from that church wanted to date him.
2. He doesn't believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God.
3. He didn't have as many friends as he wanted.
Instead of approaching the Pastor or deacons with your disagreements(which I believe is the Biblical way) You are spewing your bitterness on a blog where any unsaved person will read it and be totally turned off towards christianity. I see now that these gossip sites are such a powerfull tool of the devil and I won't be following them anymore. I pray the rest of you christians will do the same.
To April 7, 2:36pm
I know Irvin and I can tell you this:
1. He did NOT leave the church because no one would date him. Certain leaders told him he WASN'T allowed to and that they felt that God was telling them that! Irvin is his own head in his household!
2. He VERY much believes that the Bible is the Word of God, and that God is the author of the Bible, and that the Bible is the inspired word of God! If you don't know him perhaps you should choose your words more wisely instead of bashing him.
3. He did go to the certain leaders. As I said in #1 the leaders informed him what was good for him because they think God told them that!
Read your own bible. Every man is head of the woman and Christ is the head of every man...not the pastor or other leaders are the head of the man!
I don't want to be picky about spelling on this blog, but it seems ironic that anon. 2:36 April 7 would capitalize "pastor", and not "Christianity" or "Christian". Doesn't that say something about who is being honored more?
1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
1. No one from that church wanted to date him.
They would not let me ask anyone.
2. He doesn't believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God.
I do not believe the King James version is a perfect Bible like they preach that it is from the pulpit of the PVBC. Isaiah 14:12 mistranslates the word "Lucifer". It should not say this word there. 2nd Peter 1:19 mistranslates the words "Day Star" it should say "light bearer" there and yes the greek word there "Phosphorus" translates directly into lucifer in Latin. So the King James translaters were influenced by the error in translation of the word Lucifer in the old testament of the Latin Vulgate. This is a big error and is really stunning when you study it out.
3. He didn't have as many friends as he wanted.
I may have been told to be stayed away from like som of the other people on this blog.
I cannot believe I'm hearing what I'm hearing. To bring into the discussion the Wiebe girl and the things some have said here...Vic and Mel .. do you feel this is edifying to the Lord? Do you feel you are building God's Kingdom with this blog? Are people coming to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ? I had a man at my door recently, thinking he was an Amish person, I opened the door, but luckily stepped outside. He was inviting me to the Lord's supper. I asked him quietly who is 'we'? He said JW's.. I have only one way to deal with them - I tell them there will be no Baptists in Heaven, no Mennonites, no Catholics or 7th Day people.. and last but not least no JW's - Well now he said listen here I said you listen to me first - Only those who eccept Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour will be there. He shook my hand and left.
There are those here who make fun of people getting saved in PVBC. It appears there is no concern for the lost. Maybe you have never led anyone to the Lord? Saying the things some are saying here will make it even harder.
Why do you, current PVBC members think that every person who leaves your church is a liar? Where they not saved in the same fashion you were? Do you believe they are no longer saved? Where they not saved to begin with? It is YOU, PVBC members that are causing confusion!
From the outside looking in I find that quite a few of the anonymous people posting on here that I would assume are still with the PVBC get extremely defensive from these storys, is it scary knowing their preacher isn't a god, at least half the people I have talked with that attend either winkler or carman hold their pastors words as tho God spoke them Himself. And seriously! Spelling of all things to pick on, what would you do if I wouldn't put any punctuation in here, honestly the little things don't really matter. I encourage anyone who has to hand in a T4 at the end of the year to make sure you tithed enough to leave, God wants us to be honest not have some bully beat us with a club if we're not. Just my Opinion.
when did anyone have to hand in a T4 to the Church?
I have attended for years and never had to tell what I make.
JMO, your opinion is full of rumors, and fact-less. Just because Pastor Sullivant is a great man of God and is honored as a such does not mean that he is worshiped as a god. the only only ones that say that they worshiped him are the ones that are now disgruntled with him. If anyone worships a man it is that persons fault not the man who is being worshiped.
*** WS said... Great comments. I too wish people who are so disgruntled should either go elsewhere, check out other churches, investigate that pastor and soon I'm sure you will find that he or she is also not perfect. But you will have more to post about. Let me know what you find. I find when I start to feel like spreading rumours about someone else, it is usually when I feel crappy myself. Satan somehow has a way of telling me if I can bring others to my level of feelings, somehow it will make me feel better. Praise God for a living Savior.
*** JMO said.... Your facts are so off base at least the one about handing in a T4.. I know people from both churches, and not once have I heard anyone refer to Pastor Sullivant as God. I've never seen him with a club. I'm not sure if he golfs or not. As God he could direct that ball into the cup every stroke.. Tiger Woods couldn't even do that in his prime.
I love Pastor Sullivant because he preaches from the scripture. I've been to many churches and often scripture doesn't even get read or talked from.
I don't follow him, I don't follow the church and when I told Pastor Sullivant that recently that I followed the Lord, he said I couldn't go wrong doing that.
It is so sad to see the baptist comments on here. The only comments on here are about putting other peoples comments down, spelling errors, throwing names out there when that isnt even the real issue. The issue is that the baptist church in Winkler is very cult like!! Look up the meaning of cult!
It makes me sick to my stomach to think that you (baptist in Winkler) enjoying putting others down to put yourselves up higher then everyone else and taking the spot light off of the REAL issue. VERY unnecessary! Defend your church with class if you are who you say you are!
I think it is very brave of you who come out and share your stories.
*** Oh - Chari Fehr.. What is so wrong with sharing our stories, the ones that have positive stories to share.
A friend left another church in Winkler, in fact he has moved to three or four already, and yet he never started a blog to tell the world how he had been treated. He left and brought glory to God not glory to himself by taking the high road. Some day when you stand before Jesus you can tell him how you treated an entire congregation in Winkler, Manitoba despising them for following Christ. Look to Jesus Chari, only he can satisfy, not like-minded blog members who have one purpose and that is to destroy a church, a family and all the church's members.
Something I don't see on here, is anyone defending Irvin.
We're all so concerned about all these other 'issues' that we've completely missed the boat.(so to speak)
Have any of you considered the fact that Miranda (Irvin's sister) is currently under the guardianship of my parents??
Can any of you imagine the courage it would take to make that step?
He may never be able to see or even speak to his sister again!
I know what this is like, so before ANY of you continue with your rantings...Think about this poor man that is now out on his own.
What Would Jesus Do ???
*** Laura - Jesus would not throw out untruths like you just did. Do you think your parents forced themselves on this poor young woman? And maybe Irvin needs to talk to your parents first, before you spread this rumour on your own blog. I'm sure Child and Family services would more than be happy to let Irvin take care of her. I find this so completely inhumane and as unlike what Jesus would do exploiting a special needs woman, and now Irvin. {Please Laura don't block this one.]
If anyone has been exploited here it will all come out in the end. Laura has not used me in any way. I believe she is telling the truth on her blog. Ask yourself why do I believe that.
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are THE CALLED according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did PREDESTINATE, them he also CALLED: and whom he CALLED, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Laura is a very brave women and among the Sullivant clan I respect her the most.
Anon 11 April, 2011 8:33 PM
Laura doesn't run this blog. Speaking of blogs, why don't you start your own? I'm sick of seeing your posts.
*** I'm so sorry you have become ill having to read the truth. I read part of the mission: "Conversations, events and memories are recorded as truthfully and as accurately as possible."
I have no reason t obe here other than to give the other side. You don't have a corner on the truth, I live and work where truth matters, sometimes life and death, so I do not make things up. I have no reason to, other than to give my perspective and the facts. I'm sorry - I thought Laura ran this blog. If she doesn't who does?
*** Proverbs 15:28 (King James Version) 28The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.
April 12, 2011
The heart of the godly thinks carefully before speaking; the mouth of the wicked overflows with evil words.
Proverbs 15:28, NLT
The righteous weigh their answers; the wicked don't wait to speak because they don't care about the effects of their words. It is important to have something to say, but it is equally important to weigh it first.
Do you carefully plan your words, or do you pour out your thoughts without concern for their impact?
It does not matter who runs this blog. What matters is this blog is still running.
For people who have sworn their "alliegence" to obey Sullivant, sure don't listen to their master very well.
Did he not tell everyone to stay away from the blogs?
Did he also not say:
"If you're gonna believe someone, believe me?"
Why believe him???
Why not give these other people the benefit of the doubt?
And, by the way, we're not trying to destroy a church. We're trying to help PVBCers see their pastor for what he really is.
But, somehow your feeble little minds STILL cannot seperate the two.
Everyone has an opinion, as you baptist do. But this is my opinion and my opinion isn't an open invitation for a debate/argument. A real question, Why aren't any of you using your names? Seems only cowards hide behind anonymous........
I'm not baptist, I'm me and i ndue time you will find out who I am, but please why do you keep name calling.. and the likes... It is actually funny if it wasn't so sad.
Sometimes there are two sides to the story, yours mine and the right one - have you ever thought about that?
The Bible states how we should also be ready to give an answer for what we do or say. I also believe that if you have something thats so important to say and you want to be heard then you should also be responsible enough to leave your name behind what you say. I see many remarks with no name, I call these fence riders. People who are to scared to stand up for what they believe. Always ready to start something , never ready to finish it. There are only three reasons not to list your names 1. afraid you will get in trouble. 2. You got something to hide. 3. Its a game to you and you love to cause trouble. I believe that if you don't have the guts to leave your name you haven't decided who to believe so your toying with everyone. To bad you cant do that with your christian life, I made up my mind if you have something to say to me than you better leave your name this way I know your serious and genuine about whats happening. We are dealing with peoples lives here, hurting people, people looking for support, people looking for help, and people looking for answers. People that don't leave a name are often those who scream wolf but are fishing at sea. Pioneer Pete Reimer
Pioneer Pete,
I find it interesting that you commented thusly, "There are only three reasons not to list your names 1. afraid you will get in trouble. 2. You got something to hide. 3. Its a game to you and you love to cause trouble. I believe that if you don't have the guts to leave your name you haven't decided who to believe so your toying with everyone."
Aren't you guilty of #3? You sure were toying with people for many days while you went on your Pioneer rampage.
*** Well Pet Reimer you are wrong on all three counts. I've read how you put words in people's mouths, and accuse but never finish sending oh i will reveal all and the earth will give ups it dead and the sky will fall. Chicken Little thought too he was telling all but to know avail. I'm not afraid of Pastor Sullivant, nor the deacons, or of you for that matter, I finish every thing I do, and when you come clean as you have promised so often, you will know who I am. I'm not playing games, you will see.
*** I see the 'Big Guy' with all the goods and the wisdom wades in deep, and deeper. I have no idea who you Peter Reimer, and maybe one day I will find out, but this ok. I see you like to intimidate, put words in people's mouths, and the like. I used to have a friend who always told me, I have something on you. One day I called his bluff, and it all went up in smoke.
I can't even begin to tell you how your experiences MIRROR the experiences I had in a church with the same initials PVBC in California.
Just a little note for You Heb4;12. Ill say Heb 4;12 and still pretend that I have no idea who you could possibly be. {sorry I still have inside connections} . I f you are still weeping over The Pioneer I cant help you with that one. How many more hints should I have left for you. Think about everything I said to give away who I am , maybe go back to all my comments and Im sure you'll catch on with my first comment this time. However your probably safer keeping your identity hid for a while. In case you haven't all realized by now Im not to concerned about what you all say or think about me. You see for me I have nothing to lose about revealing the truth but as for you well it looks like either way its a pretty cloudy day. Ive waited for almost 14 years now so what makes you think Ill just burst it all out when you come crying? Do you actually think Ill just say anything to anyone especially on these blogs. If most of you would stop and think for a minute what might Pioneer actually know that make him so confident about what he has on pms to go through all this , the pioneer has been totally discredited and still he continues as confident as always. Like I say You have no idea who or what your dealing with!
King James Error-Calvary
Interestingly another error in translation in the King James Version has come to my attention.
The word Calvary in Luke 23:33 is a Latin word which has found it's way into the King James Bible likely also from the Latin Vulgate. The word "Calvariae" appears there in the Latin Vulgate. In the greek the word is "κρανιον" or "kranion" which of course means "skull"
In order to know what the Bible really says you need to study your Greek and Hebrew or be at the mercy of someone who could lead you astray...
"In order to know what the Bible really says you need to study your Greek and Hebrew or be at the mercy of someone who could lead you astray..."
Well said!
*** Here is a little something for you with the Greek or Hebrew comment. I find it so amusing... Unless you learn to read, speak and study in Greek or Hebrew, you are still relying on someone to interpret it for you. Maybe you had not thought of that. I use know a pastor who preached from the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts... he knew them so well, but I still had to rely on him: 1. Is he interpreting it right, 2. Does he want me to know the truth.
When [a] pastor preaches from the King James, or the NIV or whatever flavour of the month he may choose, either you trust him, and / or you make sure you study all the passages he speaks from to see if he at least [or shed] matches with what the flavour he is using. That is why those pastors who really care, will 1. Get people to bring and follow in their Bibles; 2. make sure there is enough scripture to back his or her points. I have spoken in, or sang in most of these churches in Pembina Valley, very of the people that attend do not carry Bibles to church. If you don't carry Bibles to church you wonder if they get read at home. I know that is the case for myself, and how many of those Bibles that people carry in church stay in the vehicle until next week.. Just a question... That is not a criticism, just my observations over many years of serving my Lord. Sorry, our Lord.. don't want to start a discussion on that point. I've made Him Lord of my life, and I'm sure most of you have too.
A few questions to you of infinite wisdom. Does the Holy Spirit teach you anything at all that is not in the Bible? The Bible is Merely a "GUIDE BOOK" as how to live and learn about God and His ways is all.Who does the Holy Spirit talk to ? is he limited to only a Select, or chosen few?.There are far to many People that think it's me and my Bible and now I am safe,and a goody goody Christian so to speak. Sometimes I wish there were no Bibles around for the reasons being that then people would have to check and or question why they believe what they do,and they would learn to have to Rely on the Teachings,and leading of the Holy Spirit instead of what a Pastor is trying to teach or persuade them into doing. Who is OUR GREAT TEACHER ? Man ? or the Holy Spirit ? it can be Both but in a lot of cases it's Man.
*** Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
The Holy Spirit guides me in context of the Inspired Word of God.. Do I know everything in the Bible, no I don't that is why we need to read it, study it, and have it taught by those in authority. What did Jesus say to his disciples and his followers when he was about to leave this earth:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
He gave us the inspired word of God.. He sent us the comforter, the Holy Ghost, If I accept Jesus Christ it is the Holy Ghost that dwells within me, and he speaks to me if i will only listen, and if you have the capacity to learn even more than what is in the Bible, so be it. I don't. I long to learn a tiny smidgen of what is there and the rest when I see Jesus face to face.
Be careful what you pray for. Take one country where it is illegal to have Bibles.. Guess what even one page, one paragraph would be something for many of those people. Why don't you go there and find out what those people do without the Bible, they long for a touch, they stand together, and when they get their hands on it, they consume it and put it in their hearts because they don't know when next they will not have it. The Christians throw in death camps in Russia had only the scripture that they had memorized in their minds and hearts, and kept their faith based on that. There are those poeple they find it so hard to be under the teaching or authority of a gifted man who can teach and preach. When I left home at 17 1/2, I'm sure my parents wept. I moved to Winnipeg because now I experienced freedom. I could drink, smoke, go to parties, whatever my heart desired I could do. I let them know I was on my own, I didn't need Christ. But guess what soon I longed to be under the authority of my father, because how right he was. Then when I gave my heart To Jesus as a 21-year old, I really knew what it was to submit to Him and to honor my earthly father. He died in 1984, but boy do I miss his wisdom and love for me. Also guidance... but I had the privilege of officiating at his funeral, and what an honour that was. That is when the footprints in the sand became one set. Christ and the Holy Spirit carried me, literally carried me through that blessed time.
You make fun of me and that is ok. They spat on the Saviour too, gambled for his cloak, and gave Him hyssop to drink. But as the lowly thief said to the other one, this man did nothing wrong and he is dieing with us. Jesus in all His wisdom said today you will abide with me in paradise. And guess what, when he was on the cross, I was on his mind, and he forgave all my sins, past, present, and future because he will never die again. It is sad when people put down others here, it obviously discourages some to even think of the gospel as some real.
One more thing - If Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit had thought we could all find out for ourselves, he would have never established the New Testament church. Elven of 12 disciples would not have had to die so you and I can have the Bible. Don't belittle it and its teachings, and don't grieve the holy Spirit.
King James Version Errors Isaiah 19:10
Isaiah 19:10(KJV)And they shall be broken in the purposes thereof, all that make sluices and ponds for fish.
Isaiah 19:10(Latin Vulgate)et erunt inrigua eius flaccentia omnes qui faciebant lacunas ad capiendos pisces
Isaiah 19:10(Geneva 1599)For their nettes shalbe broken, and all they, that make pondes, shalbe heauie in heart.
Here above the King James translators followed the Roman Catholic Latin Vulgate when all other manuscripts read soul(nephesh).
Just trying to quell the rumors that the King James translators who were such great scholars don't make mistakes. Either they made mistakes or the mistakes the made were deliberate...if you look long and hard enough at any version of the English Bible you will find errors in the translation...We need to be able to trust those who are put in authority over us by God, but when they abuse that authority we need to take a look at their track record and seriously consider the complaints that are being hurled in their direction...My pastor tried getting me to stop studying the mistakes of the Bible in order to preserve the illusion that it is a perfect Bible. It is not and I seriously doubt there ever will be a perfect English Bible....
*** I think it is important to know which are translations and why they translated them. Secondly, to know which are paraphrases - There are a number of those too, where one may or woman wrote it.
So, God can't preserve a perfect Bible in the English language? So all English speaking people lose out on God's word because He can't preserve a perfect English Bible for us? So, only if we know Greek and Hebrew can we only follow God's word? What kind of foolish thinking is that?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
"So, God can't preserve a perfect Bible in the English language? So all English speaking people lose out on God's word because He can't preserve a perfect English Bible for us? So, only if we know Greek and Hebrew can we only follow God's word? What kind of foolish thinking is that?"
He never promised to preserve the bible in English...what about the people that spoke English before the English bibles were translated? Where was their preserved English Bible?
Even the translators of the KJV knew that there might be errors in the English translation: "No cause therefore why the word translated should bee denied to be the word, or forbidden to be currant, notwithstanding that some imperfections and blemishes may be noted in the setting foorth of it".
It is quite an informative read: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_(King_James)/Preface
You'll have to forgive the 1611 English of course.
@Concerned Person
Riddled with errors just like the rest of the English versions...
I guess we'll just have to trust the Sovereign saving grace of God to save us and to lead us into all truth...
Romans 3:23 (NASB)
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 6:23(NASB)For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 3:16 (NASB)
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Romans 10:9-11 (NASB)
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
Romans 10:13 (NASB)
13for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Amen and Amen...
I would recommend reading a book titled "From the Mind of God to the Mind of Man". It is an excellent read. It discusses the history of the texts, translations, etc.(http://www.amazon.com/Mind-God-Man-Laymans-Guide/dp/1889893382)
Although there are errors in the English translations, I would say that the Word of God still shines through!
*** I'm not sure whether you were referring to the Hebrew and Greek... I did not say you had to know it, I was referring to how someone said the Greek or Hebrew had it different that the KJV. I said unless you know Greek and Hebrew when you read the definitions that that a book gives you from the Greek or Hebrew, you are still relying on that person's interpretation of the Greek or Hebrew, unless you know Greek or Hebrew. Now may I take my tongue or out of my cheek so to speak? Of course the Holy Spirit rides through all languages... I see a red flag when someone says, "God told me this, and God told me that unless it lines up with the Bible. That is why Pastor Sullivant and now Pastor Friesen, and yesterday, Brother Tom Williams, re-emphasized in his morning message,
2Tim 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
As I said earlier, I'm happy to stay in the confines of the Bible, yes in my case it is the KJV because I grew with it in the Mennonite church. Then when the NIV came out, I couldn't wait to get my copy. I studied and preached from it, but used many different translations, but always used them as backup and commentaries. While not trained to preach in any formal schooling, I take the scripture, all the commentaries, read it, study it, and then I do allow the Holy Spirit to guide me in developing my messages. He further guides me when I preach.. I know when I have preached on my own accord, allowing the I and me to get in the way.. But also know when the I've allowed the Spirit of God to speak through me. It is a grand and glorious morning, although I do wish it was a little nicer, but there too, God is in control. If we were to control the weather, boy would we mess it up, especially if we only wanted it to do what works for me. Life is so much better, my friends, yes even you Peter Reimer, if we sit back and let God take hold of the steering wheel. It sure works for me, I just don't let him do it often enough. Sometimes I want to get in a personal shot or two, and realize how stupid that really is. A fella in church yesterday morning reminded me of that..
OT: Isa_63:4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
OT: Rom_12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Laura and others who want to destroy the Sullivant family and the PVBC... don't you think God can do a far better job at that then you can? Pray for God to do his Work, and pray for us to do our work.
I didn't say prey on others.. I said pray for others. Keep on looking up.
Irvin, you made a bold move by sharing this and I congratulate you! Your desire to know God's word for yourself shone through. I know that if you talk to your sisters CSW, you will be able to continue to see her. Keep your light shining strong at work and in the world!
9:54 Are you actually saying that Pete Reimer is your friend or did I understand what you said wrong. Pete Reimer was disciplined when he resigned from the youth Pastor position. Then please explain to me how you a pvbc member could be a friend to Pete Reimer a disciplined sinner who Pms gave over to the devil. I thought you where not allowed to fellowship with him, and if not then how are you friends with him? Also If you can mention Pete Reimers name why don't you name yours? You see I am Pete Reimer and everyone of my so called friends from the pvbc deserted me when I left. Also none of them talk to to me anymore. Am I lying about that too? Please fill me in Id love to hear your side of the story. One thing I will ask though If you wish for this to be creditable I will ask for you to leave your name , otherwise Ill take it that your just looking to make up stories to defend yourself. Please show your colours .
As long as you believe in Christ and have excepted him it doesn't matter what church you go to. Were told to love one another not put each other down. I think u all should remember that. Good for you Ervin to stand up for what is right.
@9:54 Maybe he would be better off with us nipping at his heels then the Big Dog...
I have said pretty much all I need to say. Hopefully he will think twice about doing what he did to me to other people again in the future...
I attended the Gospel Mission Church this Sunday. It was definitely different than what I am accustomed to. They had a praise and worship band. I was taught that this type of music is wrong because it stirs up something sensual inside you. People were waving their hands in the air during the singing. The Bible tells us to pray with uplifted arms. Does tapping your toes to a hymn mean anything different than moving to a song?
I wore jeans and a casual dress shirt and did not look out of place because of my attire. I got the impression that this is not the type of church where people would be whited sepulchers...it wasn't about image.
*** I don't want to be picky, but your line about excepting Christ may have been a Freudian slip because it seems that some people here are doing just that, excepting Him, meaning leaving Him out instead of accepting him.
Pete, when you read the entire posts, I will respond to you. I attend the PVBC because I want too, not because I'm a member. As for attending the church of your choice, so be it. That is where you should be, but do you have to make it an issue?
I've said you will no me in due course, when the time is right.
*** The Authorized Bible tells us that one day, the Lord Jesus Christ will reign as the Son of David, from Jerusalem. When He does, it will be a thousand year reign of peace, where even the animals live in harmony. See Isaiah 11, KJV, what a wonderful chapter. I've a notion it will look a lot like this! I can hardly wait for that day! ...so we must be IN CHRIST, by faith in His finished work on our behalf, at Calvary where He paid once for all, for our sins, for those who believe. That way we are ready for what lies ahead.
I'm just too happy to have been part of the PVBC service yesterday... The music was inspiring, I don't need to wave my hands to the Lord, he knows my heart.
I too attend the Gospel Mission Church. I have to tell you that the pastor there, and his wife, truly love people and they are sooo humble. I am glad to hear that the fellow who attended at the GMC yesterday felt at ease. Yes, if anyone wants to know how the Lord wants to be praised, then you should read Psalm 150. The Bible tells us there in plain words how the Lord wants to be praised. Anything less is simply tradition and Matthew tells us that "they have made the word of God of none effect by man's traditions." That is so simple yet even Christians a lot of times don't even get it.
*** Just carry on.... Great to be happy in a church you like.
*** Just remember ... once the honeymoon period ends, to make another judgement at that time.
*** The Bottom Line
The profit of wisdom is better than silver, and her wages are better than gold (Proverbs 3:14, NLT).
Dear Friends,
It is interesting that the Bible uses financial terms to illustrate spiritual truths. Here is an example.
Do you know what the most crucial figure is in business?
It is not income, as many may think. Many businessmen have gone bankrupt while living a life of luxury on the money that was rolling in.
The crucial figure is not income, but profit. Simply put, profit is the total income reduced by the total expenses.
Our Lord Jesus Christ used this term in one of His most famous questions: "What shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? (Mark 8:36-37, KJV).
In other words, our Lord was saying that you can have all the income life has to offer -- health, wealth, social prestige -- and still be bankrupt spiritually.
How can that be? As mentioned, expenses offset income. As any businessperson knows, one of the greatest expenses in a business is wages. And the Bible says, "The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23, NLT).
The "wages," or the expenses of sin, wipe out profitability. Unless sin is dealt with in our lives, the spiritual bottom line is eternal loss. On the eternal balance sheet, there is a deficit.
This does not mean that on the eternal balance sheet, the debit side (evil deeds) is weighed against the credit side (good works), with the result determining our eternal destiny, heaven or hell, although a Christian's rewards will be affected by his works.
In Romans 6:23, the Bible further says that while the wages of sin is death, "the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (NLT).
When we receive Christ, the entire debit side of our life's ledger is canceled by His blood and with a free gift Christ imputes His own righteousness to our credit side! Like Abraham (Genesis 15:6), we are "credited" with His righteousness. Paul wrote, "The words 'it was credited to him' were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness -- for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification." (Romans 4:23-25, NIV).
Some Christians shout in their praise to God, as the Scripture exhorts (Psalm 47:1). They have probably had this revelation about the imputation of Christ's righteousness. If there is one spiritual truth above all others that would motivate one to shout with joy, this is it. Go ahead!
Yours for helping to fulfill the Great Commission each year until our Lord returns,
Bill Bright
If God wants me to be bankrupt then so be it. That will be better than the Devil giving me prosperity...
I just want to say to Bill Bright that I really enjoyed reading your comment and that it is so true. We couldn't pay our debt, but Christ wiped it out with His blood. All we have to do is admit that we are in need of a Savior and then accept His free gift of salvation. Sometimes I think it must grieve the Holy Spirit more how Christians are bickering over their petty differences then over the sinners who have not seen the Light. If we all claim to want to go to the same Heaven to meet the same Lord, we have better learn how to treat each other here. The Bible tells us in John that "by our love will they know that we are My [Jesus] disciples." The unbelievers are reading these blogs as well, and they must surely wonder why anyone would want to be a Christian if all they do is bicker about differing opinions.
does anyone know who Bill Bright is?
google him And find out.
*** Thanks for the observation on the piece I posted by Bill Bright. I had forgotten his name was at the bottom, but for sure want to give him the credit, but in his case he has been with the Lord for some years. He was the founder of Campus Crusade. I get his devotions still every day. You are also right that non-Christians are getting turned off by this blog. That is why I've tried to offer a positive commentary, while sometimes I must refute the things I know to be either untrue or back up the truths.
Anonymous 8:02 PM said "You are also right that non-Christians are getting turned off by this blog."
//I should hope so. Whether they thought they were doing God, or their country or me a favor by hurting me, I would just like to warn other people to stay away from the Baptist Church.//
*** It is good you say that non-Christians are getting turned off of the gospel because of the garbage on this blog? I was not referring to the PVBC, but to the gospel of Christ. People will burn in Hell as a result of the hatred towards the PVBC....
For your info.... record attendance at the PVBC.. and the Sunday School is growing... The more dissenters that leave the more the church will grow. God is not mocked... His church will stand...
Anonymous 6:57pm said "It is good you say that non-Christians are getting turned off of the gospel because of the garbage on this blog?"
You are putting words in my mouth I did not say.
By the sounds of your information regarding attendance you must be intricately involved with the PVBC..
If I had to say it I would have to say people are being turned off the Gospel of Christ because of the garbage PVBC is doing to cause this blog...
*** Each one of of is responsible for what we do. I will stand by my Lord. He good and gracious. He is risen and coming back soon. What are yo udoing to get ready for his return. What are you doing to show people the way that Jesus is the Son of God..
the government pays an overage of between $700-$800 a month for caring for a special needs individual..There are always xtra's included in that, but it is not a money making venture by far.
Just a fact, I am not a PVBC supporter
Thank you for sharing your story Irvin.
Atten 6:57 Your right about one thing God is not mocked, His church will continue. However people don't burn in Hell for speaking against abuse in a church. I hear lot about church attendance being up and Sunday school as well. I truly Believe that if these people really knew the truth they would choose not to continue knowing they too could be hurt. Numbers can be deceiving, but quality, truth, honesty,forgiveness, love, respect, and accountability are things one should never take for granted. PETE REIMER
Why isn't my post up on here, hmmm, all so crooked. You leave out the stuff that has to be said and put stuff up that in ways no matter what looks at negative things. You do this to please yourselves or what, what's wrong with you. If you can't take what people has to say then why bother having a comment section. HYPOCRITES, yup, all lying two-faced people. May God have mercy with all who's involved with this bashing session. I thank God for people like pastor Sullivant who has a heart for people. Where would I be if it hadn't been for the time he has spent talking and counseling me, I'd be out glorifying my flesh or I'd even be dead. I appreciate all the staff members of the church and college for they have helped me out to living my christian life. The life of a christian in this world is by far the hardest thing a person has to live, with the world saying to do this and to do that and urges the flesh to live strong and glorify self. Oh wait this isn't my blog so I'll stop. Thank you God for all that you've given me here and the leadersip I can look to for when I need help and my prayers go out to you all, for those who are doing right to keep doing right and for those who arnt that you may get right with the Lord.
Oh and another thing, if my first post does come up here it shows what the flesh can do, I jumped on it right away and may of said some harsh things. I'd like to apologize to Irvin if he did read it.
No problem Joe Menno. A word of advice to you from Pastor Mike Sullivant. Don't study creation science it might lead you into heresy.
http://lbcwylietx.sermon.net/sermonid/2653197
A great sermon for people reading this silly blog.
http://lbcwylietx.sermon.net/sermonid/2653197
A silly sermon for people reading this great blog.
BTW the person going by *** is Harry S-----s from PVBS. He is a VERY CLOSE FRIEND of PMS. Pete Reimer needs to know who he(***) is so that Pete knows who he is
"sparring" with.
Just a note the brave person who made the 'who dun-it' known about *** - but this person is so brave he or she keeps his or her name private ... Me thinks Harry is amused.
Tell your vast audience here Pete - How long were your youth pastor and how long were you youth leader. I think you must know there is a difference. We've never attended such a positive place as PVBC.. People are free to choose, they don't need the warped sense of help this blog is offering.
I have a blue t-shirt with an RCMP cancer fighting run advertised on the front. On the back it says "Keep The Dream Alive."
During a time when I wore this shirt at work at Winkler Canvas a missionary to Albania Mike Fiocchi came through the PVBC and preached a message called "Keep The Dream Alive." This is an example if the subtle psychological word manipulation used in the PVBC to attack it's members. If you see similar things happening to you like the staged alarms at the end of the Benny Beckum meetings then the warning bells really should be going off in your mind.
Floppyjoe, I missed most of the Benny Beckum "preaching". What do you mean by "staged alarms"?
FJ, were you a college student when you were not allowed to date? If not, what was the reason given? Why would you even ask for permission? Couldn't you have just asked a lady out?
Floppyjoe.... Now you have my attention... How does preaching "Keep that dream alive" and how did Mike the missionary attack the members of the PVBC... I'm sure if you contacted Mike, the missionary he could explain to you the basis of that attack on the people of PVBC.
Did you check with those who tried to fix that alarm system before you accused them of this kind of manipulation? I happened to be there at 4pm on a Tuesday and they went off then too. I guess that was a way of keeping me on guard for the awfulness that was about to set upon me, the help of a God-fearing pastor. I'm really hard at hearing and that alarm system really aggravates my being. This my friends, ladies and gentlemen shows exactly how far off-base many people's comments are here on this blog. A missionary to Albania preaches a message on 'Keep the dream alive'.. and by using those words in a sinister kind of way, attacks the members of the church. Wow... to me it seems like quite a stretch. Brother Beckum or Benny as you call him, nice to hear you are on a first-name basis with him, didn't need a staged alarm to set hearts right for God. He had the almighty presence of the Holy Ghost encouraging people to to list the names of 5,000 plus names that still did not yet know Jesus as their personal Saviour. A significant amount of those names, real people have done so by now... because God's alarm went off in the hearts of men and women, boys and girls who want to see their loved ones saved. Thanks for prompting this discussion with your 'great' T-shirt. You see how God works.. He uses a Cancer Care T-shirt to further his cause, that of saving souls for Him. Take the same amount of time you spend sharing your angst about the pastor and the members of the PVBC and pray for those 5,000 names. God will be praised and glorified.
Alarms which I have never heard in six years there previous to the Benny Beckum meetings went off during the invitation of I think it was the last of his preaching sessions. Apparently some baby had pulled the alarm as a woman holding it walked by. The Alarms continued to go off for the next few times I was in church. What was the reason for those then? Was the baby still at work? I believe this alarm was a staged event to psychologically cause a feeling of guiltiness in the attendees. Benny Beckum's teachings caused confusion among the saved people of the church making many believe that they had not been previously saved. If there was a problem with the alarms then why did they lie about the baby pulling it in the first place?
Either Pastor was lying when he told that story or you are trying to suggest that there was a problem with the alarms is a lie.
irvin if you want a "real" answer to settle your mind on what happened with the fire alarms call me. 362-2907 ill answer your questions. and yes they were NOT staged.
thanks
Jason
@Jason
Pastor Sullivant said over the pulpit that a baby pulled the alarm. If the alarms continued to ring afterwards for several days it was not because of this baby.
Resetting an alarm should not be difficult.
You can post your reply here if it is indeed "real"
irvin it is a bit of a long explanation so im not typing it out as i want to know that you understand what im talking about. if you cant pick up the phone and call me i guess your not interested in knowing.
thanks
Jason
Well Jason I guess you don't want people to know the "Truth" then do you?
Or you want to keep them wondering...
maybe you have something to hide...
Anonymous said...
"FJ, were you a college student when you were not allowed to date? If not, what was the reason given? Why would you even ask for permission? Couldn't you have just asked a lady out?
---29 April, 2011 9:36 AM"
I asked two girls if they wanted to go out. Both of them were younger then me and college students. The college has rules about dating. Dating is not allowed for college students unless the parents of both parties and the college leadership approve of the relationship.
They have to have a college approved chaperon that goes with them.
The girls that I asked both declined to go. The second girl lied to me about what she was doing during that time. I know this because she said she was going to be studying during that time. I went to a store in Morden with my sister Miranda during that time and saw her(girl2) pull into the store parking with one of her friends.
It seems that people in the Baptist church do not have hangups about lying at least to me.
The first girl I asked I was going to ask again but Pastor Sullivant told me not to because he thought she was interested in someone else. He also gave me other personal reasons about her character that he thought should dissuade me from pursuing her.
From what I know of her, her character is impeccable. She is beautiful. She is faithful to church. She serves the Lord with her talents...
no irvin i have nothing to hide. i just want to make sure that you understand what im saying i dont want any mis-comunication and i would invite anyone to call me. so if you really want to know about the alarm situation you know what to do.
Thanks
Jason
If somebody does decide to call him please post his response here so it can be brought to the light of public scrutiny.
irvin just one question for you. why are you afraid to talk to me? have i done something to you? im just wondering im not a scary person, im just offering an answer to your question on the fire alarms.
Thanks
Jason
Jason why are you afraid to post your reply here? Why should I want to talk to you? You have never shown any interest in talking to me before? Why do you want to talk to me now? Because you are going out with the daughters of one of the Elite? Did they put you up to this? I submit that you are afraid to bring you answer to the light but choose rather to stay in darkness...
Let me just add another incident that has happened to me. When Ben Wright lived with me for a short period. He had just gone through a graduation at the College. The college leader Brian Helm came to my house and asked to come in. I let him in and he pushed his way past me and asked where Ben was staying. I pointed to the room and then he proceeded into the room and ransacked it looking for Ben's Diploma. He told me Ben was supposed to return it because he had not completed all his assignments or something. He was about to leave with it when I told him not to because Ben would retaliate against me then. He left it here at my place. This was an illegal search of my home without my permission. If he had a real reason suspecting Ben Wright of theft he should have had the police come to my home to get it.
Jason, if you have answers please post them. Use point form if there is a lot to say. The conversation started in the public domain and there is no reason to move it out of the public's view.
What's with the wanting everyone to call or email you anyway? It seems like 90% of your posts are asking someone to contact you personally.
Irvin, I have a response to your comment about asking college girls out: First of all, there was a slight mistake in your supposition that both parents and college leadership have to give permission for a college student to date. I have attended CBBC and have dated someone that I didn't have to get clearance from either parties. I asked the advice of both and I believe that is advisable for any person (a multitude of counsellors, etc.). But, each person is able to make his or her own decisions.
However for your situation, by going through one young lady's parents, you could have helped her avoid an awkward situation. What's a girl to say to a man that's twice her age when he asks her out? Not that I'm excusing anyone lying: I certainly am not. But, having been young once myself, I would find any man who is that much older than me pretty intimidating. It would have been sensitive of you to take that into consideration instead of feeling insulted by her rejection. I'm sure she didn't mean it that way. In fact, I know it.
As far as the first girl's situation goes, character is what a person is when they are all alone. Pastor knows about a lot more problems than the average observer does. It would behoove you to trust him and pray for that young lady. Whether or not she has character problems, that would be the response that would benefit her the most.
From The college Student Handbook:
Dating/Courting
General Rules For Dating
2. College and high school students are not allowed to date unless written permission is given by both sets of parents/guardians and the college administration. All three written permissions, if given must be turned into the college office and confirmed by the college office before dating is approved.
3. A student, whether living off campus or in the dormitory, is expected to have an approved chaperon for any dating activity. This would include travel to and from any group activities.
What you mean to say is Pastor has the dirt on everyone and will choose the right person for the right person. Perhaps someone with equal dirt.
#2 can be interpreted in several different ways.
1.College students are not allowed to date high school students without permissions.
2 College students and high school students taking college courses are not allowed to date without permissions.
3 College students are not allowed to date other college students or high school students without permissions.
4 College students are not allowed to date non-college students without permissions.
I wonder which is the intended way?
Like I have said before Dictatorship and Bondage. What a crock,anyone that would subject themselves to some ruling of this kind cant be thinking for themselves,and has been deceived or blinded.People like this have been misled by Someone with a Religious authority, using and abusing it,making themselves sound and look spiritual and that's about it.Religious traditions and man made Garbage is what this is, and needs to be put back into the gutter from where it came.Religion and Gospel are two different things as Religion will Always put you into bondage as where Gospel sets you free! I wonder how many people know that?Religion also sounds and looks spiritual,but always ends up putting people back into bondage.Gospel is totally the opposite it sets all man free from bondage and works. Works are a act of the believer in response to his gratitude and love for God,whereas religion would have people say you must do so and so to get gods favor or blessings.(sounds spiritual but = bondage) How free did Christ set us? Totally Free,then why do pastors keep putting people back into Bondage?.... They are Preaching Religion and not the True Gospel. Because they themselves don't Know the difference.I Know what happens all to well when the Gospel is preached and how it changes lives.The trouble is when someone truly gets set free some pastors try to contain and rob that person of that freedom.(Back into bondage)Control is what some pastors want to much of and when some thing comes along that they don't understand they often write it off as being evil,or avoid it altogether.(Talking from experience).
John,
do you go to church anywhere?
Yes I do.And Why would you like to know?If you want to know where,That to me is irrelevant.Are you looking to stir up something?Some who is genuinely concerned can confront me in person,if not don't waste my time!
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