As posted in the comment section
My family has learned a lot about shunning from this blog. I had previously thought that only the Amish had this ridiculous practice. Now I find out that Pastor Sullivant and PVBC appear to be spearheading this unscriptural tradition in “Dependant” Fundamental Baptist Churches. He sure is leading by example. What he did to Laura was awful, regardless if there is “another side to this story”. From what I read, her life appears to have turned out well. He and his wife should be pleased. How could any dad, especially a Christian, ignore three beautiful little girls!!!
We also have a story with similarities to Laura’s, but with an different outcome. Our then seventeen year old daughter left home to go to university. One thing led to another and she rebelled against the Lord and against what we had taught her. While she was living in sin in the world, we still did not cut her off; even going as far as British Columbia from Ontario to maintain contact with her. The door was still open and the porch light was still on, so to speak. She was the constant object of our prayers, and we definitely did not pray for God to take her life. After a time she returned to the Lord in a dramatic fashion. We opened our arms to her and welcomed her back home, as any loving father and mother should. No questions asked. Had we not done so, she would have gotten lost, maybe even forever, in Europe. Her life could have turned out to be an absolute disaster. Instead, the Lord got a hold of her. For this we will praise God forever. She now has an awesome husband and three beautiful children. I cannot fathom life without them. How can a father cut off his daughter for twelve years, and call himself a man of God? Incidently, our pastor has never even asked her for her testimony about how she got saved. He appears to be too busy on the hot line to Winkler.
We have also experienced shunning - from Pastor Sullivant’s deputies - from our pastor - and from his family. This whole action was obviously indirectly inspired by PMS. Our Pastor holds him in high esteem - away too high, I believe. He is a big influence in our small congregation. Our IFBC is in a small community in South Western Ontario. Due to a matter over which we disagreed with our Pastor, we (three families) were asked to leave our church and to start one of our own. We refuse to leave, and most of the church agrees with us. The matter at the center did not even relate to doctrine. We had the audacity to question a matter relating to a particular practice in the church, and the Scriptural basis for it. After having been given “soul liberty”, we were then shown the door. Anyhow, since that time our names have been passed around to numerous IFBC in our region and beyond. Our reputation is mud. We are learning what happens when anyone has the nerve to question a DFBC pastor. D means Dependent, not Independent. One must jump when he tells you to, and ask how high on the way up. Incidently, we have only had one deacon for the past three years.
From one disillusioned dad and mom and their families
*UPDATE
I am the one who wrote Anonymous. My name is David. In answer to the first comment, our constitution has no provision in it about removing a pastor. He calls and chairs all meetings. It is pretty simple. It is high time that DFBC members and pastors took their "winklers" off, so to speak. We have now left our former church; having been given the left foot of dissfellowship. Check out my web site at: www.willyouranchorhold.com
You will find it interesting.
35 comments:
According to the PVBC constitution if the congregation stands together you can remove the Pastor. May I ask why you and the others in your church didn't do that before they had a chance to ask you to leave?
I came across some interesting information. To those of you who are giving money to CanAmera Baptist Mission International, you may want to think twice before you give another red cent to this organization. The president and founder Michael Sullivant has a well known board member working with him...Pastor Mark Bohman (Hyles Anderson grad) Does that name ring a bell? Let me refresh your memory.
Pastor Bohman used to run a Baptist church in Steinbach MB. He was looked up to by many, until the truth came out. As it turns out, pastor Bohman was stealing money from the church. The R.C.M.P were involved. As far as I know, no charges were laid, as it was an independent church and he was the head of the church. I can tell you this though, the members were so angry, they drove him out of town. He is now a pastor of a church in Ontario.
Now, for PMS. You tell others not to hang around each other because they might be a bad influence on you. What are you doing having pastor Bohman on your board of directors? Seems to me you guys are two peas in a pod.
For the members, this is proof that you can get a pastor removed from his position.
Irvin Wiebe's story
http://floppyjoes.blogspot.com/2011/04/leaving-pembina-valley-baptist-cult.html
These men are dictators and there is no doubt about that statement. Like it or lump it that’s the fact folks. They rule their home with an iron fist and when one sheep gets out instead of helping them back in the fold they throw stones at that sheep. They will throw stones at their very own. They are not compassionate at all, just bull headed and it’s their way or the highway. Judgment will come to pass on their works and it will all be burned up someday.
I am a parent and as I read all these comments and similar blogs I can't help but think what if my children had growing up in PVBC? Even if I would agree with all the doctrines, something may be very wrong there. If so, these people have time with your children in classes etc without you there, right? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyones intentions are ill. I'm not talking about physical abuse (although that happens too). It sounds like the potential mental manipulation and control can be just as bad. Come on people, if there is doubt with the leadership and you choose to still remain there are you going to chance it on you children too? It is easy for an adult to put on a smiley face to you and manipulate your child when you are not there.
so all 500 + people that go to that church are brainwashed children manipulators.
come on!
do you send your children to school without you for hours on end?
oh but thats different, the schools teach our children that belief in God is not necessary. sounds like a good trade.
No we homeschool our children and would never send them to the wolves. So if their with us at home for school why would we give them up to someone at church.
Does anyone know why you have to get a genital exam (for men) at the doctor before you can go to the bible college at pvbc? Look on page 55 of the college catalog. Sounds pretty controlling to me.
I am the one who wrote Anonymous. My name is David. In answer to the first comment, our constitution has no provision in it about removing a pastor. He calls and chairs all meetings. It is pretty simple. It is high time that DFBC members and pastors took their "winklers" off, so to speak. We have now left our former church; having been given the left foot of dissfellowship. Check out my web site at: www.willyouranchorhold.com
You will find it interesting.
For Anonymous 1:01 pm.
Just to set the record straight about Pastor Bohman, he was never asked to leave the church in Steinbach. I was a member of the First Baptist Church there for 8 years while living there and my parents were there longer than that. One deacon who had his nose out of joint accused Pastor Bohman of stealing money but there was never any evidence found to uphold that accusation. The RCMP were brought in but even they could find no evidence to support the deacon. That deacon left the church and is said to be no longer attending church. The members of the church NEVER asked Pastor Bohman to leave. When he did resign it was of his own free will.
I feel that it might be time for someone like myself to place some of my personal experiences on this site. I personally know both Pastor Bowman and Pastor John Rempel and his wife Ronda. Mark Bowman was a college teacher of mine and I have on occasion preached at the church He so ran in Steinbach Mb. It doesn't surprise me to see that he is once again moving on to so called "greener lands". He was run out of Steinbach years ago for many a reason. I may share those stories another time. I have no respect for a man like him who mis-uses his position and authority and harms innocent people. The anonymous story which was shared about their experience in Ontario is only another corrupt product of Pms and his perverted teachings. I wont say Biblical teachings because he has smoothly and slyly twisted the scriptures to fit his every need. I have known pms for many years and worked along-side him as a youth Pastor for many years and truly discovered the man he really is. I resigned from my pastoral position nearly 13 years ago and have never felt so free in Christ before. My personal experience of my life at pvbc will be shared soon. I have been deeply involved in Pastoral, leadership, and IFB teachings for a long time and have come to see, hear, witness and experience mind-blowing situations. The threats that I have been given are many and the hatred towards me is highly shown. Many of the leadership would like to take any measures possible to shut me up because of the things I have seen, witnessed and know. I was a personal friend of both John and Ronda before they knew each other and before John was saved. These are two good people who have also been deceived by the power of pms. I once told John that He would some day become a Baptist teacher , I remember him telling me off at that time, only now to see thats exactly where he is. You see I don't hate the church or the Pastors ,however I do hate the sin. I will not accept the way Pvbc and/or the pastors that they produce present their interpretation of the gospel. Innocent people are in bondage, trapped, deceived, and separated from their families if possible. I have yet to see ONE case of BIBLICAL church discipline given to anyone. I will take a stand against what they are doing and hope that God can open their eyes! My journey isn't easy but I KNOW that God is with me. Keep your faith in the LORD strong and trust him for your every need. I am sure that many will continue to bad mouth me so that others wont listen to what I have to say . I have always found that no matter what; God manages to get the truth out. PIONEER PETE REIMER
*** Pioneer Pete just put your money where your mouth is. Spit it out .. Get it in the open... You didn't even read the post just before yours.
You aren't scaring anyone, except maybe those who want to be scared. If God is in your claims, innuendos, you know it will fly. If you share innuendos, it falls under the category of hate. Posting hate material can become quite dicey and as I've said before, the www - stands for world wide web.. so if you post hate mail, and the owner of the blog who oks your posts, then you've augmented the problem. It is too bad some innocent, good people, maybe even children can get hurt because someone pews hate material in a public forum. That isn't a threat, just an observation by someone who has spent many years in the public arena. It can sound so honourable to say you are saving so many people from the clutches of someone else, but when your posts fall into the category of hate material, those people may well flee. If the person you refer to here is so bad, and the church is so off-base, then you'd think God would look after that sin, instead of blessing the church. If you say you are so good, and have preached so far and wide as you make it sound, you'd think people would want you to be their pastor and you can start a church. Preach and bring people to the Lord, instead of trying to destroy people, families and churches. I'm sure you must know whether God is in your stuff you want to share and have shared....
"...instead of trying to destroy people, families and churches..."
Is that not what PMS is doing? how many families are broken and relationships destroyed because of him? ONE is too many and sadly there is a whole lot more then one!
No one is trying to destroy PMS or PVBC.
Speaking the truth and telling people "there's a fire" is only wrong when it exposes a false prophet?
I see that the crap is hitting the fan.I'm sure I Know who posted that comment in regards to Pioneers blog.Funny thing is money does not buy everything.For some it sure tries to run their life.Some use it to Buy freinds,or use it to threaten people just to get their way.Yah I know your not to impressed with me,but the truth will come out ! how long will you deny it ? why would everyone lie about it for one? Gods word needs no one to protect or defend it , it stands alone.I wish things were resolved but at this time it still does not seem to be an option. Something fishy going on here.
Its interesting to see that as soon as someone who comes out to speak of the TRUTHS about HIS experiences at pvbc , threats are once again brought my way. Let me remind you I am revealing MY experiences and if you read hatred in those statements it is hatred which was brought out through those experiences it is not directed to bring down anyone but are only true life experiences that I have been through. Let me remind you that my name has been run through the mud and placed out on blogs defaming me and my business which is a Federal offence. I will not be bullied any longer by those in Leadership at pvbc or be under your control or authority .If any charges could be laid trust me by the advice of my lawyer I have much to go on from how I have been talked about, mis-treated, de-famed and had my business and personal life destroyed. Would you like for me to continue. Your threats may work on others but tell me shall I treat you the same as you have me or others. You may wish to hide behind an anonymous title, however God knows your heart, and identity. I have the guts to show my name and share my experiences and the last time I checked I live in a free country where I can share my beliefs and opinions. Everytime I share a comment I am judged, condemned and threatened . If I have no valuable info to share and Im only full of lies and everyone knows that, why are you so concerned?I heard that pvbcers were to stay off the blogs but somehow a select few seem to steadily follow along. My story will soon be shared and I do have the freedom of rights to do so. Let me remind you God works inspite of peoples sin if he didn't there wouldn't be even one preacher out there. God will still get his word out to good people even if there are problems in a church. God will still bless others. Why would He judge everyone for a few peoples sin? Even you know better than that. Also Pastors of churches are not the only ones who preach the Gospel and bring lost souls to Christ. I have NEVER said that I was so good however I have been asked to preach in several other churches and pastoring a church isn't the only ministry that is needed out there. The proof is out there Im not destroying anything out there you seem to be doing that job well enough on your own. The people that have been leaving are leaving on their own free will or from seeing the truth come out or from the way they are being abused by their pastors and those in leadership who wish to assist them. I wont take the blame for what you've done . Ill just share my experiences. PETE REIMER.
Re: Anon. April 20 5:34pm "it falls under the category of hate"
Could it be that the truth hurts and you are just perceiving it as hate? I've been following these blogs for some time and I just don't see hate at all in Pioneer Pete's comments.
There are a lot of people hurting due to the way they have been treated, or should I say mistreated, directly related to pvbc. You can read it on these blogs that this is widespread. It's not just at pvbc.
Open your eyes people! The trumpet is sounding! Watch the walls of pvbc come tumbling down!
*** Pete Reimer - I have nothing to hide. I have no concerns about what you will say. If you felt it was threat, that is your doing. I was not threatening, only observing. If the two sets of books example is the best you have.... Why not spill all the beans at the recent open forum? Great opportunity... wouldn't you think? When walking the walk and talking the talk splits up families, it is not the pastor's fault. Jealousies play such a huge role in resentments that I detect here. Also stubbornness does the same thing when kicking against the pricks....
There is absolutely NO truth in the comment by Anon. Apr. 21, 9:24 "walking the walk and talking the talk splits up families." Someone has been brainwashed, and I hope you realize it sooner than later. Don't ever blame us who do everything we can to invite, accomodate, and pussy-foot around pvbc'ers, and yet they present themselves as on a higher plane than us, and we are too dirty to be associated with. I have seen it all around, and experienced it first-hand in my family. Be a Godly Baptist, wonderful, just as I strive to be a Godly Mennonite. This should be no reason to split up families and friends, and I repeat, the splits are not instigated by us non-pvbc'ers.
IN regards to Comment @9:24 I wont even Beat around the bush so to speak.You think you are so wise in asking Pete as to why not spill the beans."You are just like the Pharisees" you are just looking to cause trouble and really have no interest at all in finding or knowing the Truth! Hard will be your fall who pride themselves in their evil ways.You obviously still have something to hide you are to gutless to post your name. Oh That's right you have been taught "no accountability" all to well by "your Master".It takes a Real Man to admit to his fault's and also a "Real Man to Post his Name" I don't think we would be to glad if at the day of reckoning we would be labeled or known as anonymous. Just a thought.
I can only speak for myself and a few others who are very interested to hear what your experiences at pvbc are Pete Reimer . I know that you where involved in the ministry there and also attended the early years of cbbc. Myself and a select group have some concerns about how things have been handled and are continuing to be dealt with. We are sad to see that it is really not a church with a heart for people. At least not for peoples best interest, or well being. I commend you for your stand and look forward to hearing more from you. I apologize for not leaving my name however I will seek you out. There are many good people at pvbc and I hope that they too will open their ears and mind to hear the other side of the story. Being accountable for actions is lacking here and it's really starting to show. If possible could you please explain who is the pastor and the deacons accountable to? Also if they are in the wrong who disciplines them? Answers to these question would help explain a few things. FAMILIES LOOKING FOR ANSWERS!
To Anon 21 April, 9:09:
If you read the church's constitution, which can be found on this blog as well, you will find out to whom the pastors and deacons are responsible, and what route, if any, members may take to oust a pastor. Note who calls the meetings, who is the moderator, and who can veto or overrule votes. Hope this helps.
*** Wow what great responses. I have only been taught by Pastor Sullivant in the last year or two.. My forming of my beliefs came from studying the Bible.
Once again, who of you would run a business where everyone else, except you would call the meetings, run the meetings, and let others set the guidelines and rules?
I'm not interesting in causing trouble... I just find it curious that Pete keeps threatening, and there was a recent public forum where you could have spilled the beans.
As a journalist, I get quite perturbed when a person sends me an email and says he has a story, but refuses to divulge it when I meet him or her. I'm a Real Man believe you me.
Stop putting Mike Sullivant on a pedestal. Boy, does he do that well enough on his own. He turned his back on his daughter so he could be a 'big man on campus', so to speak. The love of money, power and control, don't ya think? I would have had way more respect for that man if he stepped down from the pulpit and assumed his first and foremost God-given role, to be a FATHER.
What makes you think that he will protect anyone of you, his 'sheep' when he doesn't even care about his own flesh and blood, regardless if there's another side of the story.
There was a time constraint on Monday, 5 people shared, all was recorded on video.
Pete was the last to share, have you seen/heard what was said? Maybe after you get FACTS, you can say he isn't spilling the beans.
For those who want copies of video, get in contact with people you know attended.
If unsure of who to contact, I would suggest emailing the bridgeisout@gmail.com
Oh and there are a lot more people who could share on another open forum.
The admin of this blog welcome questions by email.
To the anon comment ending with "FAMILIES LOOKING FOR ANSWERS": If you email bridgeisout@gmail.com, they will be willing to help you out.
Also, regarding Pete Reimer, please understand that he had much more material that he did not have time to cover. He did "spill some beans", but time ran out. The information he did give was very helpful in forming a character sketch of sorts.
*** Then go to it. So far, innuendo and stuff....
Praise the Lord for 1:05pm revelation! How true it is that if PMS doesn't even care for his own flesh and blood, how do the people who attend there think that he would care for them??!! I cannot believe that I actually have family at pvbc (who are in leadership) and will not question Mike's actions! Open your eyes, people and get out even if it means being shunned by your so called friends at church. We have "been there, done that" and know what shunning is all about, but once again I say praise the Lord! that He opened our eyes and are no longer under a control freak of a leader.
More and more stories being told all the time of eperiences at pvbc. Some of you saying its all lies and hear -say. Interesting how everyones experiences have so many similarities. Just makes me wonder ...was Pete Reimer actually telling the truth, does he actually know more than what everyone thinks,is it all hear-say?, How many more things could there possibly be? Just thought I might say Ive been through this all with Pete And know that For some reason or another He's HOLDING BACK. Anyone who worked with PMS like he did has got to know the real story. I think there may just be a good reason for his timing to reveal his story! I think many of you may just be shocked at what he really does all know. I have nothing to do with pvbc and after i saw what he had Im glad I never got involved there. I do hope he will someday share even just a glimpse of what he has experienced.......A friend of The so called Pioneer.
I think even if you are not part of the church it is our business. We have people in the church whom we care about deeply and desire all the best for them.
BTW the blogger with the three ***'s is Harry S, the famous
"journalist". Please advise Pete Reimer.Pete needs to know that *** is the new 'spokesman' and defender of PMS.
This will be helpful info for Pete Reimer. Pete you are a good guy. I listened to your 90 min CD. It was a real eye opener. I look Fwd to more things that you will reveal.
*** if you have nothing to hide then why not log in as Harry S ? Are You Hiding something ? News Media And Church Politics ...Good Combination .......NOT !
So you can't be involved in media and go to church>
Is that what I said?.... Geez This reminds me of some stuff posted on this blog;We tend to read whatever we choose to into what is being said.LET ME CLARIFY FOR YOU: "News Media" tends to focus on Filth,bad news,Destruction or in other terms (Negative Stuff).When is the last time you saw or heard of "GOOD NEWS" being reported ? IT"s not a common occurrence.And If good news is reported, the credit is often not given to where it is due (OUR GOD).Society and a lot of Media tend to make a mockery of God.Also when good news occurs it is explained away into nothing,oh it just happened or it's just a coincidence,(LUCK) ? Not! We Tend to forget who is in control of our lives,Let us give credit where credit is due !
I guess you have not read last week's issue of the Morden Winkler Voice. Maybe you should read the column HS wrote and all of the paper every week. You will find much positive news. So, please keep things in perspective and don't run off...half cocked.
I see that anonymous still cant seem to post names, so until you can do that I will not take you seriously ! More Church Politics...No name = No accountability.Accusation after accusation, Remember you may hide from People but can Never hide from God.
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