Vic and Melanie's Experience

In October, 2010, Frank Harder, who has been a good friend and employee for about eight years, came to me about something that had been troubling him for some time. He told me that Mike Sullivant had a meeting with him (the other person present was Gary Driedger) during which my and Vic's names were mentioned.

Sullivant had warned Frank in this meeting to be careful of his contact with us, warning him that he would become what he hung out with. He also told Frank how much we were tithing. Sullivant told Frank that I had other problems with the church as well and had been emailing them.

When Frank told me this, I was very upset. How many times had we been told from the pulpit that Sullivant never sees how much we tithe? This news went directly against what we had heard preached. I also wondered how Sullivant could warn someone to not spend time with me and my husband without speaking to us directly about any concerns he had about us. We never had a call or email about whatever we were doing that would have caused church leadership such concern. I would add that during the previous two and a half years when I was suffering at home alone with new allergies and chemical sensitivities and could not attend church, there was no offer of help or call made to me. I was so ill and troubled that I had lost nearly 50 pounds and became nearly unrecognizable to some people, but still I was alone. A few friends cared enough to encourage me and pray for me. I say all this to illustrate how I had struggled for nearly three years and did not know that I was looked upon in such a negative way as to be the object of the “like fellowships with like” warning.

But we were marked. And the trust was broken regarding the tithe. What a person gives to God is between him and God. Sullivant might not count the money, but the counters keep track so we can get tax receipts and, it appears, report to leadership.

When Frank told me the part of his meeting with Sullivant and Driedger that involved us, I told him right away that we couldn't hear news like this and not follow up on it, that we had to talk to Sullivant and couldn't do it without naming him. We know that Sullivant does not regard anonymous reports, but we would not name Frank without his explicit permission.

In about two weeks, we met with Sullivant in our home. He came alone. We had sent the children to play at the neighbour's house for the afternoon. When Sullivant arrived, we didn't beat around the bush, but came straight to the point. Vic said to him, “Did you tell Frank how much we tithe and that he should not be around us, to be careful who he hangs out with?”

Sullivant appeared surprised when his eyes got big and he leaned back in his chair. He responded, “No, I did not. Did Frank tell you this?”

Vic: “Yes.”

Sullivant: “Call him in.” Frank was working in the shop, so Vic went into the next room to call him from the cell phone.

Meanwhile, I said to Sullivant as he sat across the table from me, “Frank has worked for us for many years. He is like family to us, like a brother. He has been loyal through some very difficult times here when others might have walked out. He is human, yes, but has never given us reason to doubt him.”

Sullivant's words were, “And I have?” There was no opportunity for me to reply because Vic and Frank walked in at this point. When they were seated, he turned to Vic and said, “Ask him.”

So Vic did. Frank's reply was, 'Yes, he did say those things about you.”

Sullivant turned to Frank, pointed at him and said, “You are lying!”

Frank held his ground calmly and said he heard what he heard, that he was telling the truth. A brief argument followed between the two, during which Sullivant called Frank a liar a number of times. Frank remained calm during this. Neither man conceded. Since Gary Driedger was present at the meeting with Frank, Sullivant called him on speaker phone and that conversation went something like this, after preliminary chit chat:

Sullivant: “Gary, I've got you on speaker phone. I am at Vic and Melanie's; Frank Harder is here too. I have been blind sided here with the accusation that I told Frank about their tithe and that he should not hang around with them. Is this true?”

Gary: “Absolutely not. We never said anything like that. Their names never even came up at that meeting.”

As the phone conversation went on, Gary repeatedly said that he couldn't remember what exactly was said, but knew which things had not been said, the end result being that both pastors concluded that Frank was lying. The phone conversation ended, and some other matters were discussed in front of us regarding Frank that should have been done in private and were completely unrelated to the matter at hand, the reason we had called this meeting. I believe that this was done to throw in a red herring, to distract us and to cause Frank to lose credibility in our eyes. It was a complete change of subject, with Frank being the object of attack. When it appeared that Frank and Mike were at a stalemate, I asked Frank if he wanted to add anything and he said no. He was dismissed.

I said to Mike, “We are in a very difficult position here. We have to choose between a loyal friend and a pastor.” He said he could see that. I reiterated that Frank had never given us reason to doubt his word. The words Michael Sullivant said next were, “Look at my track record.” At another point during the meeting, he confidently said, “I am innocent in this.” We made no indication at that meeting where our loyalties lay. Now I wish we had made that clear with both men present. We already knew what our decision would be before Frank left the room.

I asked Mike, “Do you mark people by name, telling them not to fellowship with someone?” He said no, he never does that unless it's a church discipline situation. I also asked, “Do you keep track of the giving?”

Sullivant replied, “I never see a record of the giving.”

Both statements were directly contrary to what Frank told us.

The phrase “Look at my track record” was one that echoed in our minds for weeks as we did exactly that. We looked at Sullivant's track record objectively. This was our thought process after our minds quit reeling: Why would Frank lie about what was said about us? Did he stand anything to gain or lose by telling us? Did Mike stand to lose by admitting he had told someone how much we tithed? What could Mike stand to gain by calling Frank a liar, by trying to make him lose credibility in our eyes? We compared the two men who both said the other was lying to the account in the Bible in which Solomon was faced with two prostitutes, a dead baby and a living baby. Solomon said to cut the living baby in half so each woman would have a share in the living baby, and the mother wept while the lying whore agreed to halve the infant.

The following Sunday we were in church and sat with Frank and his wife to show our support for him publicly. I went to one more Wednesday service after that where, incidentally, I witnessed another character assassination, but that is someone else's story to tell.

Proverbs 26:28
A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.

A statement that we can not forget from one of the last sermons we heard from Sullivant was, “If you have a problem with this church, you have a problem with Christ!” Our problem is not with the church as a whole, but with the leadership of it. As we looked at his track record, we observed and considered seriously other incidents we knew of involving him and saw a pattern of behaviour that was disturbing. The common threads in the situations over the last years were pride, lack of accountability, and deceit. We read the constitution of the church and knew that there was no accountability for Sullivant if he did wrong. We had heard an unbalanced number of sermons about pastoral leadership and obedience to the pastor. Understanding that we were not significant enough to bring about change, we communicated clearly with the pastor our reasons for leaving, followed the constitution and hand delivered our letters of membership withdrawal to the church at the end of November.

John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.